tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post4583988767755205539..comments2023-08-15T06:44:05.705-05:00Comments on Pure Church: Senior Pastor??? Part 2FellowElderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-31958302407826636682008-12-09T11:19:00.000-05:002008-12-09T11:19:00.000-05:00KG,Thanks for the question, brother. In summary:1...KG,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the question, brother. In summary:<BR/><BR/>1. I would see multiple elders leading as a team together in the local church.<BR/><BR/>2. I would see mutual deference and forebearance as necessary to healthy leadership and healthy Christian living in general (Phil. 2:3-4).<BR/><BR/>3. I don't think either 1 or 2 above militate against "first among equals." At its best, first among equals simply recognizes a few practical things:<BR/><BR/>a. The church has likely called one man to play the main teaching role in the church;<BR/><BR/>b. That man is likely gifted and/or trained for that role; <BR/><BR/>c. There comes with that role certain responsibilities and expecations (including stricter judgment and accountability before God); <BR/><BR/>d. With those responsibilities should also come certain kinds of lattitude or authority necessary to accomplish the responsibility; and<BR/><BR/>e. Within the bounds of shared leadership, then, it is entirely appropriate for the elders as a whole to at points defer to "the first among equals" in certain matters. <BR/><BR/>Now 'e' is not a unilateral deference; then you <I>would</I> have a two-tiered system that fails to recognize equal authority. That's not what I'm saying. <BR/><BR/>Everyone is concerned about a single pastor wielding unbiblical amounts of authority. That's understandable. <BR/><BR/>But in these comments I'm making room for two things--one biblical, the other practical. First, I'm trying to take seriously the role scripture seems to assign to chief spokespersons. That's why most folks end up with some form of "primus inter pares." Second, I'm trying to avoid the opposite error--flattening the leadership in a way that effectively assigns significant responsibility without also giving any lattitude, authority or support to complete the task. All the responsibility and none of the authority is simply a disastrous position for a pastor to be in. It will grind a pastor's and church's ministry to a painful and unnecessary halt.<BR/><BR/>In a healthy eldership, "a" and "e" co-exist. It's more art than science, but it's really quite necessary. I think the line of thinking that says "because there is clear plurality there must be unbending equality" misses too much biblical data and doesn't account for real-life practical issues in the ministry.<BR/><BR/>T-FellowElderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-69649639478128503642008-12-09T10:56:00.000-05:002008-12-09T10:56:00.000-05:00Hayden,Thanks for your comments and recommendation...Hayden,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments and recommendation of Strauch. That's a very, very good book on the subject and should be read widely.<BR/><BR/>I think what I inadvertantly left unsaid in question four is that I do think the address to "the messenger" in Rev. 2-3 is effectively ex officio. This man is called to play that role "because of his office," which, assuming a plurality of elders in every local church as the biblical model, must mean there is a "first among equals" according to office, not just gifting. The text doesn't say, "to the best speaker" or "to the best leader," but to "the messenger." <BR/><BR/>I would disagree with Merkle, following Strauch, that having the title "senior pastor" or having an elder play that role is ipso facto a different office to elders in general or necessarily sets up a two-tier eldership. Of course, there are many ways a two-tiered system can develop (it's just as likely to develop if people consistently defer to the "more gifted" brothers) and that ought to be avoided, but having a senior pastor does not lead necessarily to that situation, nor does it necessarily undermine equality and mutual deference among the elders.<BR/><BR/>And, of course, you're correct... healthy congregationalism helps with this a great deal :-)<BR/><BR/>Your brother,<BR/>T-FellowElderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-20809933531978452222008-12-09T10:47:00.000-05:002008-12-09T10:47:00.000-05:00Thank you for your clarification of your thoughts ...Thank you for your clarification of your thoughts on these issues. Your insight is helpful as we go forward in continuing to lead in our church.<BR/><BR/>I would like to ask a few questions for clarification.<BR/><BR/>I couldn't tell for sure, did you believe that all the elders are equal in authority or that the primary preaching elder has a higher say or deciding vote in matters of leading the church?<BR/><BR/>I guess it seems to me that you are supporting more of a senior pastor with elders who are under him type of structure. Am I correct in that or would you suggest a team of elders who equally lead together much like Strauch proposes?KGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11282358447700779685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-62801741525455988942008-12-09T10:46:00.000-05:002008-12-09T10:46:00.000-05:00A couple other books to recommend among many usefu...A couple other books to recommend among many useful titles on this topic:<BR/><BR/>Phil A Newton, Elders in Congregational Life: Rediscovering the Biblical Model for Church Leadership (a look at elders from a congregational perspective)<BR/><BR/>Benjamin L. Merkle, 40 Questions About Elders and Deacons (in many ways a very readable, q&a version of Strauch)<BR/><BR/>Michael Brown, ed., Called to Serve: Essays for Elders and Deacons (a look at the topic from a Reformed, paedobaptist, and presbyterian perspective)FellowElderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-20913051165250654842008-12-09T10:27:00.000-05:002008-12-09T10:27:00.000-05:00Good words Thabiti and some strong biblical argume...Good words Thabiti and some strong biblical argumentation.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I disagree with you just a tiny bit on your assessment of Strauch's 'first among equals'. Strauch is just trying to put some criteria on something that happens naturally. The elder 'board/team' is made up of men of different gifting and he is trying to challenge the idea of the 'senior pastor' always being deferred to. <BR/><BR/>Strauch is pointing out the truth that the one in the pulpit often sets the direction for the whole church and the elder board. He wants to guard against the hierarchy system of the pastor on the top of the pyramid with the elders below (which is only a problem for us that have an elder led system, not for those with a congregational model ;-))<BR/><BR/>For all those wanting to understand an elder led system read Strauch and definitely read teh book Thabiti recommended called 'Leading with Love'Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01256518337951573331noreply@blogger.com