tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post6697909722495393303..comments2023-08-15T06:44:05.705-05:00Comments on Pure Church: Can the Predominantly African-American Church Be Reformed? 3FellowElderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-17901391051524566072007-02-16T23:55:00.000-05:002007-02-16T23:55:00.000-05:00Brother you are totally on the mark with this stuf...Brother you are totally on the mark with this stuff. Like the others who have commented I too grew up in the Black church; I also ended up being suckered into the Word of Faith heresy for six years. I appreciate your critique for it is similar to the one I have made about the Black Church over the years. Many thanks for quoting Bishop Payne because he gets a bad rapp in the Black church for his views. I recently had the privilege of doing a lecture series on church history at a National Baptist Church in Minneapolis and I brought up Bishop Payne's views on the ring shout. After talking about this I got a lot of negative comments save the comment of one man who seemed to favor Bishop Payne. God Bless you my brother on your deep and good work in reforming the Black church. Semper Reformanda!Scotty J. Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261534892582198082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-27831272667403487622007-02-09T22:55:00.000-05:002007-02-09T22:55:00.000-05:00Wyeth,What gets remembered and promoted once you'r...Wyeth,<BR/>What gets remembered and promoted once you're dead is interesting, isn't it? The same is often done with Grimke--his work on social issues is always touted but his view of Scripture and the ministry is downplayed or ignored.<BR/><BR/>The Payne address and quote can be found in Charles Killian (Ed.), <I>Bishop Daniel Alexander Payne: Sermons and Addresses, 1853-1891</I>. New York: Arno Press, 1972.FellowElderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-38324067141593916002007-02-09T22:31:00.000-05:002007-02-09T22:31:00.000-05:00Absolutely never, in the 35 years I was in the A.M...Absolutely never, in the 35 years I was in the A.M.E. Church, did I hear anyone talk about what Daniel Payne believed, relative to Scripture. Anything I ever heard about Payne was about his leadership of Wilberforce University and his advocacy for Black people. The closest I ever heard about Payne's biblical beliefs was criticism, because he believed ministers should be men of exemplary character (one writer called him puritanical to the Nth degree), and because he tried to discourage emotionalism and primitive worship practices like the "ring shout", feeling such practices beneath the worship of the one true God.<BR/><BR/>My attention was particularly arrested by the Grimke quote. It is profoundly sobering to consider this quote in light of the current state of the "Black Church". And I must question myself: Have I ever been guilty of merely playing to the emotions in my preaching or music leading? I'll have to think long and hard about what Grimke said.<BR/><BR/>Question: Is the sermon or talk from which you obtained the Payne quote in print anywhere?Wyeth Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07037542472866679987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-79998658727141442792007-02-09T18:38:00.000-05:002007-02-09T18:38:00.000-05:00I especially appreciated the last three words of y...I especially appreciated the last three words of your posting. What you say can apply to any local church, any denomination, or any group of Christians defined by race or culture. The details may differ, but the problem remains. In some churches powerful preaching is measured by screaming and thumping the pulpit. In others by telling jokes and interesting stories. Yes, the details differ, but the problem remains... a lack of respect for the Biblical way of viewing reality. If we viewed reality in a Biblical way, we would understand that self-control is a sign of spiritual maturity, not the ability to scream into a microphone. Likewise the importance of careful Bible teaching rather than man-centered and man-glorifying stories.Shawn Abigailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09810173103807948064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-91802185982948588492007-02-09T12:16:00.000-05:002007-02-09T12:16:00.000-05:00I have enjoyed these three posts very much and can...I have enjoyed these three posts very much and can relate the majority of this need for reform in my experiences as an itinerant pastor in a rural area. The majority of the small rural churches in my area have a very familiar vein with the type of church you and these great pastors are fighting throughout history to reveal the true, "pure church" to. Thank you for this three post series and for the book that I am eager to read after it is available.Justin Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654199020316857514noreply@blogger.com