tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post7547331150264127975..comments2023-08-15T06:44:05.705-05:00Comments on Pure Church: The Church and SCOTUSFellowElderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-6578936694330370712007-07-10T05:05:00.000-05:002007-07-10T05:05:00.000-05:00Thoughts New Zealand - my country - not perfect by...Thoughts <BR/><BR/>New Zealand - my country - not perfect by any stretch of the imagination - but:<BR/>* Race relations all schools are integrated <BR/>* All schools have to be sensitive to the first people and their language and integrate this into their programme regardless of the percentage of first nations people at their school. This is a mantatory requirement and is expected to be seen in the school program. <BR/><BR/>We have a national school education board review committee that visits all schools. Normally 4 yearly but some schools get visited more often. Schools get checked on a variety of things (including obviously whether they are teaching to a high quality) <BR/><BR/>Have a look at these 2 school reviews and see what they say about how the school is catering for Maori and Pasific people. <BR/><BR/>Again I stress, like America we are facing the same problems but instead of going to court about it we have instegated grass roots programs (which I know you have some of too) and are working with those<BR/><BR/>SCHOOL 1 ( From an area of the lowest socio economic disadvantage - has many racial groups including large proportion of our first nations people)<BR/>http://www.ero.govt.nz/ero/reppub.nsf/0/BEE41DAB5ED8B74FCC2571BD008073B1/$File/2973.htm?Open <BR/><BR/>SCHOOL 2 ( Highest socio economic classification) still has to meet exactly the same standards as school 1 .<BR/>http://www.ero.govt.nz/ero/reppub.nsf/0/A7C7F95130F851CFCC25716A0018DDFD/$File/2813.htm?OpenLisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12245428263009453052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-3385998462759543472007-07-07T11:31:00.000-05:002007-07-07T11:31:00.000-05:00Lisa,Thanks for pointing out how American-centered...Lisa,<BR/>Thanks for pointing out how American-centered many Americans can be. It's a problem blind spot. And my 11 months in Cayman certainly show how people outside the U.S. tire at that blind spot if not become offended. So, your comment is a helpful reminder.<BR/><BR/>I'm down for a field trip! Where in the world would you have us look for helpful examples of countries tackling these issues head on?<BR/><BR/>T-FellowElderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-5290312578069246382007-07-07T04:35:00.001-05:002007-07-07T04:35:00.001-05:00*cough* In all of this (and I know Thabiti you wri...*cough* In all of this (and I know Thabiti you write from the Cayman Islands) I really wonder once again whether America needs to wake up and take a good hard look at itself. <BR/><BR/>America is not the sole representative of this problem. I know that sounds profound. It is really. I don't mean that to sound harsh.<BR/><BR/>But there are perfectly good examples of how countries/cultures/communities and hence churches are interacting racially OR tackling this problem head on. When oh when will America take a leaf from their book? and take a look at these other examples... I am always one of the belief to 'think global and act local'<BR/><BR/>Field trip anyone?Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12245428263009453052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-6228341102827323522007-07-06T10:37:00.000-05:002007-07-06T10:37:00.000-05:00Gracias, Amigo!Keep plowing ahead like a fullback ...Gracias, Amigo!<BR/><BR/>Keep plowing ahead like a fullback and we'll try to keep up!GUNNYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11422524342398284973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-28617639118121696372007-07-06T10:13:00.000-05:002007-07-06T10:13:00.000-05:00Gunny,Keep gunning for the glory of Christ in all ...Gunny,<BR/>Keep gunning for the glory of Christ in all things and every area of life!! You have my prayers. And certainly it is the Lord that builds His church... even before the faithless! Grace and peace to you, brother.<BR/>ThabitiFellowElderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-31699999047445954172007-07-06T10:10:00.000-05:002007-07-06T10:10:00.000-05:00LouLove,Good to hear from you. I pray all is well...LouLove,<BR/>Good to hear from you. I pray all is well in the northern 'burbs of Chicago. We miss our fellowship with you all.<BR/><BR/>You raise some good questions. My short answer would be "I don't know." But since I've opened the discussion and challenge, let me fight for a slightly longer answer. :-)<BR/><BR/>You asked: <I>"What would be the signs that would indicate after such an inspection that "our" Church or "our" hearts need some work?"</I> A couple indicators:<BR/>1. If the reaction to SCOTUS in your church is decidedly for or against the decision, perhaps heart work is in order. This is a complex issue with complex effects on people. At the least we should expect a mixed reaction to such things. <BR/>2. If there is indifference, there may need to be some heart work. This is certainly not the most important thing in the world, but that doesn't mean it's unimportant. Indifference could signal callousness toward justice and/or blindness to gospel opportunity.<BR/>3. The detection of vengeance, triumphalism, or hatred would certainly reveal a need for heart work. <BR/><BR/>You also asked: <I>What needs to be done by the rule of Christ in His Church that will begin to overturn the rule of the U.S. Supreme Court?</I> Another good question. I'm sure you could give us some good applications, but here are a couple to start the ball rolling.<BR/>1. Every week for the next three months have someone over for dinner or out for lunch that does not look like you or come from where you come from. And do not ask them about SCOTUS. Enjoy the fellowship.<BR/>2. Consider having a special Wednesday night Bible study or some other event in the church where you openly discuss SCOTUS or other issues that raise the question: "What is and what ought to be the church's witness on issues of racial justice, unity and fellowship?"<BR/>3. Looking for a new church, consider and join the predominantly-"other" church in the neighborhood rather than driving past a dozen on the way to the predominantly-"same" church across town. <BR/>4. Pastors, rather than plant an entirely new congregation that looks like your current church, send a team of "church reformers" to the struggling church made up of people ethnically not like your congregation. <BR/><BR/>Those are some thoughts. I'm always open to suggestions for how we can experience and live the "one new man" reality achieved by Christ on the Cross.FellowElderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590139703839397873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-73356428323962865382007-07-06T09:19:00.000-05:002007-07-06T09:19:00.000-05:00"None of us have come so far as to safely conclude..."None of us have come so far as to safely conclude that racial or ethnic discrimination lies well behind us... or rather, doesn't lurk in us."<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the single best sentence I've read this year. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the SCOTUS decision - and thanks for taking the time to apply it to even more important areas of our lives. <BR/><BR/>I look forward to reading your second book when it drops.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-45523042726944945162007-07-05T19:25:00.000-05:002007-07-05T19:25:00.000-05:00I was privileged to meet you at Bethlehem Baptist'...I was privileged to meet you at Bethlehem Baptist's pastors conference and appreciate(d) your heart on these issues.<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "Will "whites only" and now "blacks only" and "Asians only" signs be posted over the doors of churches?"<BR/><BR/>Sadly, those signs are not even needed as the body of Christ is so segregated. Sadly, we do it to ourselves AND further encourage it with church growth/planting strategies, whereby the homogeneous principle prevails.<BR/><BR/>I have been told more than once that <A HREF="http://providencechurch.info/" REL="nofollow">our church plant</A> is going to have a harder time growing with our commitment to ethnic diversity and church desegregation.<BR/><BR/>Good post, brother.GUNNYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11422524342398284973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28988815.post-3714464197906479862007-07-05T18:22:00.000-05:002007-07-05T18:22:00.000-05:00Brother Thabiti:As always your thoughts (and opini...Brother Thabiti:<BR/><BR/>As always your thoughts (and opinions) are worth reading and musing upon. <BR/><BR/>I would like to ask you a couple of questions regarding one of the last comments you made.<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/>"It's a good time to inspect our hearts and our churches."<BR/><BR/>What would be the signs that would indicate after such an inspection that "our" Church or "our" hearts need some work?<BR/><BR/>What needs to be done by the rule of Christ in His Church that will begin to overturn the rule of the U.S. Supreme Court? <BR/><BR/>In other words, how now should we live?<BR/><BR/>This is aching in my soul, so help a brother out!LouLovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12297572094290882802noreply@blogger.com